tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post9042186288841152508..comments2024-03-22T00:30:09.536-07:00Comments on The Neurocritic: Is There Any Evidence for the "Porn-Addicted Brain"?The Neurocritichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-16615331709000747162015-12-15T19:10:57.605-08:002015-12-15T19:10:57.605-08:00Thanks, Gary.
Other than that, I am here to make ...Thanks, Gary.<br /><br />Other than that, I am here to make contact with you because I have questions for you.<br /><br />Is there any way I can submit them?dreamhttps://wordpress.com/stats/day/dreamtrueimage.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-32154134208279446062010-11-13T16:38:31.023-08:002010-11-13T16:38:31.023-08:00CONTINUED......
Moreover, Internet porn can be far...CONTINUED......<br />Moreover, Internet porn can be far different than an orgasm:<br />1) It affords extreme novelty – 100’s of new sexual partners per session. Novelty is highly stimulating to reward circuitry. This is what makes it so appealing, and potentially addictive. It is not Dad’s static, finite <em>Playboy</em>.<br />2) Unlike food and drugs, in which there is a limit to consumption, there are no physical limitations to Internet porn consumption - other than the need for sleep and bathroom breaks. The brain’s natural satiation mechanisms are not activated, unless one comes. Even then, the user can click to something more shocking to become aroused again<br />3) Unlike drugs and food, the brains natural aversion system doesn’t get activated with Internet porn. Aversion is different from satiation. One starts vomiting or getting sick when aversion is activated. Who loses interest in sexy images? Whose genes would allow that?<br />4) With food and drugs, one can only escalate (a marker of an addiction process) by consuming more. With Internet porn, one can escalate with novel “partners,” and by viewing new and unusual sexual practices. It’s quite common for addict to move to ever more extreme porn. <br /><br />It seems you started with an opinion, rather than considering the obvious: Many are addicted to Internet porn and natural reinforcers can cause addiction – anyway you define addiction. So let’s hear your substantive objections to these points, okay?garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14063786048420043480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-19056268265875986102010-11-13T16:37:29.749-08:002010-11-13T16:37:29.749-08:00Neurocritic,
It appears that your only argument ag...Neurocritic,<br />It appears that your only argument against the existence of Internet porn addiction is that it hasn’t been studied. That’s no argument; it only means no one wants to study it.<br />Those addicted to Internet porn experience dependence, tolerance, and withdrawal symptoms. Hopefully we can agree that their brains must have undergone changes.<br />Several studies have demonstrated that natural reinforcers, such as highly palatable food, can alter the brain in ways similar to addictive chemicals.<br />For example: <em>Dopamine D2 receptors in addiction-like reward dysfunction and compulsive eating in obese rats</em>.<br />Unlimited acces to especially enticing food caused a decline D2 receptors in the reward circuitry. It occurred rapidly, along with behavioral changes. The dopamine receptors had not returned to normal even two weeks after the animals were returned to normal food. Compare that to the rats taking cocaine – they had a similar drop in D2 receptors, yet their receptors returned to baseline in 2 days.<br />This means that unlimited access to an especially exciting version of a <em>natural</em> substance or phenomenon can lead to brain changes that indicate an addiction process. A decline in D2 is a known marker of an addiction process.<br />Simplified:<br />1. Overeating tasty food (sausage, cheesecake, frosting) CAUSED a reduction in dopamine receptors.<br />2. This also shows up in human findings.<br />3. One of the main findings in drug addictions is a decline in striatal dopamine receptors.<br />4. In short, natural reinforcers can be addictive if the stimulation is supranormal, i.e., higher than what our ancestors evolved with. <br />5) Orgasm is far more stimulating to the reward circuitry than sausage – yet both food and sex are natural reinforcers.garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14063786048420043480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-47846504554914131642010-11-13T16:33:09.848-08:002010-11-13T16:33:09.848-08:00Neurocritic,
It appears that your only argument ag...Neurocritic,<br />It appears that your only argument against the existence of Internet porn addiction is that it hasn’t been studied. That’s no argument; it only means no one wants to study it.<br />Those addicted to Internet porn experience dependence, tolerance, and withdrawal symptoms. Hopefully we can agree that their brains must have undergone changes.<br />Several studies have demonstrated that natural reinforcers, such as highly palatable food, can alter the brain in ways similar to addictive chemicals.<br />For example: <em>Dopamine D2 receptors in addiction-like reward dysfunction and compulsive eating in obese rats</em>.<br />Unlimited acces to especially enticing food caused a decline D2 receptors in the reward circuitry. It occurred rapidly, along with behavioral changes. The dopamine receptors had not returned to normal even two weeks after the animals were returned to normal food. Compare that to the rats taking cocaine – they had a similar drop in D2 receptors, yet their receptors returned to baseline in 2 days.<br />This means that unlimited access to an especially exciting version of a <em>natural</em> substance or phenomenon can lead to brain changes that indicate an addiction process. A decline in D2 is a known marker of an addiction process.<br />Simplified:<br />1. Overeating tasty food (sausage, cheesecake, frosting) CAUSED a reduction in dopamine receptors.<br />2. This also shows up in human findings.<br />3. One of the main findings in drug addictions is a decline in striatal dopamine receptors.<br />4. In short, natural reinforcers can be addictive if the stimulation is supranormal, i.e., higher than what our ancestors evolved with. <br />5) Orgasm is far more stimulating to the reward circuitry than sausage – yet both food and sex are natural reinforcers. <br />Moreover, Internet porn can be far different than an orgasm:<br />1) It affords extreme novelty – 100’s of new sexual partners per session. Novelty is highly stimulating to reward circuitry. This is what makes it so appealing, and potentially addictive. It is not Dad’s static, finite <em>Playboy</em>.<br />2) Unlike food and drugs, in which there is a limit to consumption, there are no physical limitations to Internet porn consumption - other than the need for sleep and bathroom breaks. The brain’s natural satiation mechanisms are not activated, unless one comes. Even then, the user can click to something more shocking to become aroused again<br />3) Unlike drugs and food, the brains natural aversion system doesn’t get activated with Internet porn. Aversion is different from satiation. One starts vomiting or getting sick when aversion is activated. Who loses interest in sexy images? Whose genes would allow that?<br />4) With food and drugs, one can only escalate (a marker of an addiction process) by consuming more. With Internet porn, one can escalate with novel “partners,” and by viewing new and unusual sexual practices. It’s quite common for addict to move to ever more extreme porn. <br /><br />It seems you started with an opinion, rather than considering the obvious: Many are addicted to Internet porn and natural reinforcers can cause addiction – anyway you define addiction. So let’s hear your substantive objections to these points, okay?garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14063786048420043480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-37571076965895970362010-11-10T02:23:27.947-08:002010-11-10T02:23:27.947-08:00Anonymous - I think Tantalus Prime was commenting ...Anonymous - I think Tantalus Prime was commenting on how religious leaders can brainwash believers like you into thinking you're abnormal. You are NOT abnormal, "sick" or "damaged".<br /><br />I assume you are not about to renounce your religion, which would be one step towards changing your negative beliefs. If you would like to get help with accepting your sexuality while still remaining a Christian, I suggest you try to find a more liberal church in your area and seek counseling there. Reparative, or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy" rel="nofollow">conversion therapy</a> does not work. I recommend this paper by two Lutheran doctors, which rebuts the views of Pastor David Glesne and explains why reparative therapy doesn't work.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nisswa.net/~critiques/misho.html" rel="nofollow">MISUNDERSTANDING HOMOSEXUALITY</a><br /><br />. . .<br /><br /><i>The official APA position on reparation therapy includes the following statement: “All such therapies assume that homosexuality is morally wrong, medically pathological, and socially undesirable and are based on the beliefs that erotic desire for someone of the same gender should be eliminated or redirected and that there are interventions that are effective in changing sexual orientation. Neither of these beliefs has been validated by empirical study.”</i>The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-90596587149622283522010-11-10T01:26:18.135-08:002010-11-10T01:26:18.135-08:00tantalus prime: interesting comment about women w...tantalus prime: interesting comment about women who "never think about and never want it until they get married to a good Christian man." I am not sure whether you were referring to just sex or pornography, but, here is your "interesting post:" I am a married Christian ( or am I just foolin myself?) woman who has found herself newly drawn to nude photos (of women for cryin out loud! Try to figure that one out since I have never been previously attracted to women). I even found myself masturbating to one pic that I found online in particular. My husband is a wonderful Christian man, so undeserving of such a sick wife ( I have depression and a personality disorder, too). It would break his heart (considering all the other stuff he has to put up with, not to mention my being unemployed now for 8 mos)if he were to find out what I have been up to. And of course, I cannot go to the church and expect to get any help (even depression can scare other Christians away and make them judgmental of Christians like me). I can't trust any of my friends, either. And I don't have $ for counseling (remember, I've been unemployed for 8 mos?). So, where's the hope? Can some pill alter my brain or make these new desires go away? The guilt is heavy. I feel like I am cheating on my sweet husband. How 'bout shock therapy or some other extreme treatment? Oh, I believe that addiction of any kind can and does change the brain on a physiological level. Hope mine isn't too damaged, yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-57938625875701214842010-10-12T10:54:00.737-07:002010-10-12T10:54:00.737-07:00Bravo dude!
In recent light of the suicides and po...Bravo dude!<br />In recent light of the suicides and position of "the church"... need more be said?<br />THANK YOUAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-22470120202097375642010-10-11T09:35:44.868-07:002010-10-11T09:35:44.868-07:00This is a frontier for neuroscience for sure. Lik...This is a frontier for neuroscience for sure. Likely because of the socio-cultural belief factors and denial that plague all medical views of mental illnesses and especially addiction.<br /><br />It seems to us that virtual, online compulsive sexual triggering and masturbation is far less harmful, personally and socially, than the real thing. It's really not that big a deal. And a symptom of a brain state -- not the "problem."<br /><br />It does seem a testable hypotheses to generalize from other impulsive/compulsive brain disorders and mechanisms. But peer-reviewed studies are sorely needed.<br /><br />We have been looking at the vole studies which are interesting in their focus on pair-bonding or not.<br /><br />Finally, we will say that, anecdotally, we find sex addiction often a truly horrific condition. Using another person as the drug of choice often involves children, dependents and physical violence. Often those afflicted seek out positions of power, leadership and social acceptance to "feed" their habits. Political leaders, religious leaders, educational leaders are examples. Some of the stories of the victims are heartbreaking.<br /><br />There too, however, the drive for social prominence seems to come under the category of impulsive/compulsive disorders which we see as symptoms of a inherited dopamine receptor deficits.SleepRunninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608995629056535796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-38182793074902152262010-10-05T13:32:33.622-07:002010-10-05T13:32:33.622-07:00Thank you for challenge this. I'm a neuroscien...Thank you for challenge this. I'm a neuroscience student and it scares me sometimes how people can distort and misuse results to "prove" their beliefs.Ioanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17182134521638785538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-11540973990395276242010-10-05T07:56:51.738-07:002010-10-05T07:56:51.738-07:00Mr Neurocritic, Thank you for your good work here...Mr Neurocritic, Thank you for your good work here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-46882643203567211822010-10-03T21:30:47.965-07:002010-10-03T21:30:47.965-07:00It's pretty obvious that Dr. Donald L. Hilton...It's pretty obvious that Dr. Donald L. Hilton, Jr. is himself a type specimen of the porn-addicted brain. <br /><br />(He's studying it just to see how bad it really is, you know.)Spiny Normanhttp://spinynorman.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-81301520066890077152010-10-03T14:26:58.968-07:002010-10-03T14:26:58.968-07:00Oh, and about my "agenda" - I do believe...Oh, and about my "agenda" - I do believe that preventing suicide among LGBT youth is extremely important.The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-70550543285568174792010-10-03T14:23:08.041-07:002010-10-03T14:23:08.041-07:00Anonymous - I see you have resorted to science by ...Anonymous - I see you have resorted to science by analogy...<br /><br />I stand by my statement that I have yet to find any peer reviewed research that demonstrates brain changes directly related to "pornography addiction" (however one may define it). I never denied that such changes could occur. ALL experience changes the brain: learning to read, learning to juggle, learning a second language. It's such an overworked truism that I didn't bother to explain this (see <a href="http://mindhacks.com/2010/06/07/neuroplasticity-is-a-dirty-word/" rel="nofollow">Neuroplasticity is a dirty word</a>).<br /><br />In the absence of evidence, it is disingenuous to say that criminal pedophiles are equivalent to those who watch a lot of porn. It's like saying that anyone who occasionally feels like they're being watched (the experience of a "sensed presence") is the same as a paranoid schizophrenic who believes the CIA is engaged in an elaborate plot to spy on him and control his mind. You are arguing that one can use the brain changes in the latter as a proxy for the former.<br /><br />I don't think so. That's unscientific.<br /><br />In July I featured a three part series on neuroimaging studies of viewing erotic material, and how variations in sexual preferences influence the neural and behavioral responses:<br /><br /><a href="http://neurocritic.blogspot.com/2010/07/erotic-or-disgusting.html" rel="nofollow">Erotic or Disgusting?</a><br /><a href="http://neurocritic.blogspot.com/2010/07/pleasure-or-pain.html" rel="nofollow">Pleasure or Pain?</a><br /><a href="http://neurocritic.blogspot.com/2010/07/tales-of-passion-and-disgust.html" rel="nofollow">Tales of Passion and Disgust</a><br /><br />I have also critiqued a published study on internet addiction: <a href="http://neurocritic.blogspot.com/2009/11/does-internet-addiction-really-shrink.html" rel="nofollow">Does "Internet Addiction" Really Shrink Your Brain?</a> (the answer: we don't really know based on that one paper). An excellent post by <a href="http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/09/4-internet-psychology-myths.php" rel="nofollow">PsyBlog</a> addresses the difficulties in defining internet addiction in the first place.<br /><br />Finally, it turns out that use of the "destructive impact upon the human brain caused by viewing pornographic images" argument isn't new. Here's a classic 2005 post by Mind Hacks, <a href="http://mindhacks.com/2005/07/20/attack-of-the-porno-zombies/" rel="nofollow">Attack of the porno-zombies</a>:<br /><br />-----------<br /><i>The Guardian</i> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/farout/story/0,13028,1527638,00.html" rel="nofollow">reports</a> on psychologist <a href="http://www.drjudithreisman.com/" rel="nofollow">Judith Reisman</a>, who argues that pornography is an ‘erototoxin’ that damages the brain, impairing cognition and rational thought:<br /><br /><i>“According to Dr Judith Reisman, pornography affects the physical structure of your brain turning you into a porno-zombie. Porn, she says, is an “erototoxin”, producing an addictive “drug cocktail” of testosterone, oxytocin, dopamine and serotonin with a measurable organic effect on the brain.” </i><br /><br />In the first instance, she’s right. Pornography does physically affect the brain. In fact, everything we experience physically changes the brain in some way.<br /><br />. . .<br /><br />Critics note that Reisman is <a href="http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=mindhacksblog.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lightedcandlesociety.org%2Fnewsletters%2FJuneNewsletter%2FJuneNewsletter.htm&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fmindhacks.com%2F2005%2F07%2F20%2Fattack-of-the-porno-zombies%2F" rel="nofollow">associated</a> with the <a href="http://www.lightedcandlesociety.org/" rel="nofollow">Lighted Candle Society</a>, a right-wing Christian organisation aiming to promote ‘moral values’ and fund anti-porn brain scanning studies.<br />-----------<br /><br />You can bet that if a neuroimaging paper on porn addiction IS published, I'll be among the first to blog about it...The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-10513946128693563822010-10-03T13:34:32.857-07:002010-10-03T13:34:32.857-07:00Tantalus Prime - Good point! Women aren't supp...Tantalus Prime - Good point! Women aren't supposed to have sex drives. <br /><br />Hilton does have a slight nod towards protecting teenage girls. In <a href="http://salifeline.org/he-restoreth-my-soul-by-donald-l-hilton-jr-md-pornograph/" rel="nofollow">He Restoreth My Soul,</a> he says:<br /><br /><i>"It is important for those who have daughters to understand that although the numbers are smaller for girls, there is still a risk, both from visual pornography and primarily from chat rooms, text messaging, and verbal pornography."</i><br /><br /><br />Mike - You're right, of course. A literal reading of the Old Testament will suffice.The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-28829700667797561832010-10-03T11:14:10.671-07:002010-10-03T11:14:10.671-07:00"Religious organizations use this as an excus..."Religious organizations use this as an excuse for promoting campaigns to condemn any form of sex that occurs outside of holy matrimony."<br /><br />Some may, but the real reason we condemn it is because God himself condemned it in His Word.Mike Ruhlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783447894380887705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-9430116038791114722010-10-03T09:41:11.142-07:002010-10-03T09:41:11.142-07:00So, in your opinion addictive responses in the bra...So, in your opinion addictive responses in the brain are only the result of extreme activity (pedophilia) or obsessive activity (interfering with daily "normal" activity) but are NOT present in other activities.<br /><br />Yes, that makes complete sense. Our brains only respond to extreme activity. Normal brain activity can have absolutely NO similarity.<br /><br />Even by scientific standards your argument is extremely weak. <br /><br />You cannot find any studies on pornography, but what about gambling or other types of addictive behavior. I've read some great studies recently on anger management and behavior.<br /><br />What you're saying makes very little sense. If a neurological basis can be found for ANY addictive behavior that doesn't involve drugs, why can't it be present in EVERY addictive behavior that doesn't involve drugs? <br /><br />Are you saying that you are completely devoid of any kind of agenda to argue differently than those that clearly have an agenda? <br /><br />I would be happy to agree that the science isn't settled yet for a specific mechanism for neuro-addictive behavior (certainly in regards to a particular area of the brain) - but I'd be very careful to say there is NO evidence of such.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-54399916987289318882010-10-03T08:50:12.240-07:002010-10-03T08:50:12.240-07:00A corollary to this is the overemphasis by some re...A corollary to this is the overemphasis by some religious leaders on sex differences in the brain. They often use this as justification for the scriptural roles for husbands and wives. Related to the present topic though, they also use this research to argue that all men are sex addicts (we can't help it, we're wired that way) and women never are (because women of course never think about and never want it until they get married to a good Christian man). That would make for an interesting post some day.Tantalus Primehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02906363761474296292noreply@blogger.com