tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post5573165784033891181..comments2024-03-14T23:52:09.893-07:00Comments on The Neurocritic: That's Impossible! How the Brain Processes Impossible ObjectsThe Neurocritichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-90969112000339756232012-02-29T00:14:25.762-08:002012-02-29T00:14:25.762-08:00Thanks for the clarification. I really should try ...Thanks for the clarification. I really should try and read slower. ;)weiyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519770984585459008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-24915920534054495752012-02-21T00:04:28.512-08:002012-02-21T00:04:28.512-08:00weyan - Are you confusing two separate studies (Ha...weyan - Are you confusing two separate studies (Habeck et al. 2006 and Wu et al. 2012)?<br /><br />Wu et al. did make the assumption that "according to the RT results, we thought that the confusing factor of the adaption might be ruled out." But you're correct, they didn't specifically analyze all their fMRI data to check for adaptation effects.The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-48140446120584648792012-02-20T21:08:08.308-08:002012-02-20T21:08:08.308-08:00You wrote, "Repetition suppression predicts b...You wrote, "Repetition suppression predicts behavioral priming for possible objects (Habeck et al., 2006)... However, no such relationship was observed for impossible objects."<br /><br />In the actual article, "In the fMRI results, the data of 4 subjects that showed adaption effect were also deleted."<br /><br />Maybe it is possible that if you combine all the data you won't be able to find an adaptation effect, but I don't think you can conclude that there is definitely no adaptation effect without seeing their complete set of data. There is, just that they removed those subjects. Small number of subjects, but still relevant. <br /><br />I'm not nitpicky, I was just a little bit misled.weiyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519770984585459008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-73139414650842209852012-02-19T11:40:31.930-08:002012-02-19T11:40:31.930-08:00Matt Craddock - Thanks for the more detailed inter...Matt Craddock - Thanks for the more detailed interpretation of the LOC finding! And also for the links to the multimodal properties of LOC, which had escaped my attention.The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-63623588601816400172012-02-19T11:06:48.688-08:002012-02-19T11:06:48.688-08:00Thanks for the pointer to the Impossible World, re...Thanks for the pointer to the Impossible World, really nice resource!<br /><br />LOC seems to be generally involved in the recovery of 3d shape, and this role seems to be somewhat independent of the sensory source from which the information is recovered. For example, LOC is involved during <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224551" rel="nofollow">haptic recognition of objects</a> and when shape is conveyed by an <a href="http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v10/n6/abs/nn1912.html" rel="nofollow"> auditory sensory substitution device </a>. In keeping with this role of LOC as something that recovers 3D shape, I would be tempted to interpret greater activation to impossible objects as continuing attempts to resolve the conflicting information about their shape, which is quite different from a circumstance in which there is *no* object or discernible shape present, and quite different again from the activation of some kind of representation of the shape: I tend to think of LOC as a kind of online processor rather than a "storehouse". The final conclusion "the 3D spatially impossible structure could, [with difficulty], be represented by the visual system." seems like a bit of a restatement of the results; we know it must do *something* in the visual system, because otherwise we wouldn't be able to see it.<br /><br />Anyway, to give it a positive sumamry: I like the demonstration that LOC is involved in processing both possible and impossible 3d shapes, and the implication that it has to work a bit harder for impossible ones.Matt Craddocknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-24614246489269237052012-02-19T10:54:08.627-08:002012-02-19T10:54:08.627-08:00Anonymous - Thanks for commenting about your exper...Anonymous - Thanks for commenting about your experiences. There are indeed different types of priming. Semantic priming is closest to what you're describing. In a typical experiment, the meaning of one word primes the retrieval of related words, so you're faster to identify the second word (e.g., apple-orange vs. apple-window). Interestingly, individuals with schizophrenia tend to show <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19995582" rel="nofollow">alterations in semantic priming</a>:<br /><br />"<i>(1) schizophrenia patients have overly inclusive semantic networks... and (2) schizophrenia patients are deficient in their use of semantic context, responding to primed words as if they were unprimed...</i>"<br /><br />Even more similar to what you're describing is the use of context to select the appropriate meaning of a word: "I took the lift to the top floor" vs. "I got a lift from the positive news." Here, those with schizophrenia <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19819269" rel="nofollow">can show</a> "<i>disproportionate misinterpretation of subordinate meanings (toast at a wedding).</i>"<br /><br />So you're definitely in the ball park.The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-62520486977301993342012-02-19T04:25:51.550-08:002012-02-19T04:25:51.550-08:00Thank you for such an interesting article.
I had...Thank you for such an interesting article. <br /><br />I had a psychotic episode a while back, it went on for some time, and two things I noticed where that I lost my sense of irony (I couldn't see the funny side of The Producers at all) and I had trouble reading phrases where the word could mean two things eg. "lift" meaning raise up and "lift" meaning elevator. I couldn't seem to make the words make sense. <br /><br />I have read somewhere that this priming you are talking about is related to the brain being able to choose between two instances when the one word means different things. The brain has to choose between all the different meanings of that word each time a word comes up and priming means that you don't always have to spend a lot of time thinking about the meaning of these words. <br /><br />Is this in the ball park?<br /><br />Total amateur but interested.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com