tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post361007065610006891..comments2024-03-22T00:30:09.536-07:00Comments on The Neurocritic: Neural Correlates of Admiration and Compassion and Envy and SchadenfreudeThe Neurocritichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-38954657319983801252009-05-01T09:53:00.000-07:002009-05-01T09:53:00.000-07:00I'm glad the authors used the phrase "if replicate...I'm glad the authors used the phrase "if replicated, this finding...", because the chances of that happening are zilch (think voodoo correlations).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-42298725647782756702009-04-21T12:23:00.000-07:002009-04-21T12:23:00.000-07:00Hi Neurocritic,
Thanks for your comments. I've j...Hi Neurocritic, <br /><br />Thanks for your comments. I've just been following the thread and thought i'd just add the following <br />1. The authors seem to have done a lot of work in piloting the narratives they've used here. It would be useful for them to share the data from these pilots for further development and reuse as it seems quite a tall order to undertake the study at the same time as validating one of the measures.<br />2. I'm surprised that they're using retrospective evocation of emotions. Perhaps alternating narrative presentation with neutral prose might have allowed for within-subject control and 'real-time' assessment of emotional response. Each presentation could have been followed by the subject rating their feeling.<br />3. I might have misunderstood this but with whole brain analysis of lags does that mean that you can create a temporal sequence of activated regions within the brain. The results always seem to be presented as regions which have been significantly activated rather than pathways but this idea would make sense. I guess the difficulties would be in choosing thresholds for voxel firing and defining 'regions' within the pathway. However this would seem to be a neat way of analysing individual data and then combining it with other subjects. A pathway analysis might be complicated by multitasking where several pathways are being activated simultaneously. <br />4. Just a technical point but as the insular cortex is buried quite deep and has continuity with ACC how did the authors define the boundaries of the insular cortex? I've looked at a few studies where the approach for doing this seems to be lost in 'we used this software package'. <br /><br />Regards<br /><br />JustinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-36494727110945884732009-04-21T09:57:00.000-07:002009-04-21T09:57:00.000-07:00My point in bringing up different brain regions in...My point in bringing up different brain regions in the time lag discussion is to initially raise the simpler issue that we're not talking about rapid-fire millisecond precision here, and that there's a built-in delay even for discrete visual stimuli in primary sensory cortex. The onset of an emotional response, I said, is not as clearly determined, so that compromises the within-region (or within voxel) comparison in the insula. <br /><br />One must also take into account that the subjects were using the 5 sec cues to remember how they felt 1-2 hrs ago. I'm in complete agreement with you that RT measures should have been used and reported. And your suggestion of a whole-brain analysis of lags is a good one.The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-67514973260081997102009-04-21T06:55:00.000-07:002009-04-21T06:55:00.000-07:00You review of the time lags of hemodynamic respons...You review of the time lags of hemodynamic responses misses a key factor. All those studies compare lag differences across regions. The Immordino-Yang study is looking at the task responses from a single region of interest. It is reasonable to assume that vascular dynamics within a voxel aren't task dependent thus any temporal differences are neural.<br /><br />That said, the authors don't mention reaction time anywhere and that could affect the results. Also, it is possible that the temporal delay is happening in some other brain region that precedes the activation of the interior insula. Note that even reaction time differences ARE neural differences, but the differences might originate in earlier brain regions.<br /><br />Reaction time measure and a more thorough whole-brain analysis of lags in significant brain regions could address both of these concerns.bscinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-63248317048544855372009-04-20T16:01:00.000-07:002009-04-20T16:01:00.000-07:00Hi Justin,
Thanks. In the Methods, the authors st...Hi Justin,<br /><br />Thanks. In the Methods, the authors state that:<br /><br /><I>the narratives consisted of the experimenter’s previously scripted verbal account of each true story supplemented by materials adapted from various sources including television, the internet, documentary films, and radio. Narratives followed a consistent format (i.e., beginning, "This is the story of a woman/man who…" followed by a scripted story and the presentation of additional materials including video and/or still images of the protagonist. Each narrative required between 60 and 90 s to recount and finished with the experimenter asking, "How does this story make you feel?").</I>The rating scale ranged from 1 to 4 where 1 was for "not particularly emotional," 2 was for "moderately," 3 was for "very strongly," and 4 was for "overwhelmingly emotional". More details are in the <A HREF="http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2009/04/20/0810363106.DCSupplemental" REL="nofollow">Supporting Information</A>, which is now freely available to all on the PNAS website, as is the <A HREF="http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/04/17/0810363106.abstract" REL="nofollow">open access article</A>.<br /><br />Hormone levels weren't assessed in this study, but psychophysiological measures were. I'd expect that a myriad of hormones might influence the imaging findings, although the time frame for each trial was 18 sec... I don't know the duration of such responses. As for physiology, respiration rates did not differ between the conditions. Heart rates for AV, CSP, and CPP were higher than for AS and C.<br /><br />Interestingly, Critchley and colleagues have examined patients with pure autonomic failure (PAF) to see how the lack of autonomic responses affects social, emotional, and motivational functioning. The PAF individuals showed an attenuation of empathy scores in one study (<A HREF="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18442952" REL="nofollow">Chauhan et al., 2008</A>), but they were unimpaired on tests of emotion recognition and theory of mind (<A HREF="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15381028" REL="nofollow">Heims et al., 2004</A>).The Neurocritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010555869208208621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21605329.post-3907054483088820162009-04-20T14:13:00.000-07:002009-04-20T14:13:00.000-07:00Hi Neurocritic,
Nice article. Thanks for the lin...Hi Neurocritic, <br /><br />Nice article. Thanks for the link by the way. Did they operationalise any of the tests administered or were the narratives created ad hoc for the study? Did they use a self-rating scale for compassion? The reference to some of these emotions got me thinking - in your opinion what effect would the release of hormones associated with various emotions have on the imaging findings?<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />JustinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com